Initial Post – Foundation One Discussion

[Ivy Walker]

Hi Cohort 20,

In attempt to clarify the assignment above– please read all of the PDF and book chapter readings listed above to inform your initial post for Foundation One. An initial post can be about 2-3 paragraphs, a little more if need be. These posts are meant to be more reflective than academic. As the posts begin to come in, please respond to your peers. Let them know what their thoughts light up in you.

Please know very solidly: this is an invitation to begin with the curriculum early and the due dates are suggestions.  We just opened up this offering to get started this past weekend during the June Online Sessions and we realize this might not be a fit for everyone to suddenly meet the deadlines.  Rather, they are guidelines to try to get you all into a conversation here in the Learning Center as you write and post.  Please feel free to adjust the due dates so they are a realistic match for your schedule.

Warmly,Ivy

[Sul]

My response here will be based on the articles I’ve read and my past experience as I just got the books delivered by Amazon today and have not read the chapters yet.

My recent past experience I studied intensely in an indigenous ceremonial context deep nature connection with the four elements earth air fire and water and Medicine Wheel teachings. Through these ceremonial studies I communicated with the Spirits of each element and each direction north south east west. I practiced rituals for each and prayed long and intently for guidance. Deep listening and nature connection was inherently the foundation of these intensives. I’m able to listen to the elements and four directions as a way of life and am cultivating a relationship with them for guidance and can incorporate into my coaching practice.

A line from a poem I wrote “See, when you felt the heartbeat of the earth mother pulse through you in that moment you knew you were inseperable from her, we met there, too”, describes what nature connection is to me. I also believe that is requires at times solo exploration and communal sharing. In Young’s article, he wrote that mentoring is a key element in supporting a deeper connection. I also really love the line “Wilderness is a leaderless teacher” in Harpers article. There is this sense of belonging that I think people desire in a more meaningful way in general and in a mediation one night I received this message. “Belonging is in every moment” and I think when I see wilderness as a formless being and more as myself or ourselves collectively I open to the thought feeling idea that I/ we belong to nature.

Moving to NYC became the catalyst for seeking a deeper connection to nature. The urban landscape set me on a quest to repair my severance to nature which did not begin by living in a big city but was revealed more clearly to me by the concrete envrionment. My severence to nature connection if I were to provide a timeline began sometime in my teen years. I grew up in a home of violence and my abuser was my primary caregiver. When I removed myself from the unhealthy envrionment, I began a healing journey that was initiated by deep nature connection. The transformation and healing that occured soothed me as my first mother, the earth held me through it.

Although the instant and continuous support brought me back to harmony and profound peace, I struggled to maintain a conscious connection later on. I believe I resorted to substance abuse as a means to escape the tremors of my trauma which I did not anticipate and had no tools to navigate. I abandoned nature connection as my resource and it was easy to do so considering the community I participated in.

Years later, I arrive confused and riddled with unhealthy behavioral patterns in NYC and I observe a starvation of my soul I never knew existed. The decreasing connection to nature had seemingly vanished and I had become phantom like in my inhabitance. My body electric with the overstimulation, a cacophony of sound penetrates me. The city’s sound waves shock my being and my soul began questing for an immersion of nature connection. I searched like hell for a place like the Earth-Based Institute. Nature connection is important to me because it is the mother tongue of my instinctual self. I am its essence embodied and it is mine. It is the pharmacy of green medicine for healing and is how I take better care of myself.

In the supplemental online meetings I took note of some things which were “the environment is touching you or listening with senses nature is touching you/skin”. I think as a coach this can help me feel safe and I can bring safety into my client’s awareness and establish trust.

When I’m in a natural landscape and I surrender everything. I catch the flow, a current of energy that delivers me lovingly with aching remembrance…I’m home. Every part of me relaxes in to this knowing. To me this is deep nature connection. Knowing I’m safe at/in home/nature/myself.
When I orient back to this home feeling/knowing, sacred questions make me present to what is not in alignment with the healthiest best truest for me it like a wise old hand on my shoulder councils meso tenderly.
I can see the benefit of beginning with the Sacred Questions has the potential to touch a very deep part of me and a client. Being touched by the most suave caress from nature gets me to my core truths and I think it will for my clients. As I practice one element of coaching presence curiosity, I wonder if nature is curious about me? Maybe that can be a fun and creative way to add some playfulness into a session. I can ask a client what would nature be curious about you and what are you curious about me as coach and about nature and how can this help us be open to possibilities and transformation?

I think these connections I reflect on can support my coaching because I think its natural a client would be approaching me with something important to what their mind is telling them. In John Miles’ article Wilderness as a healing place, he wrote about research two psychologists did that revealed three benefits of connecting to nature an increased awareness of relationship with environment, increase of self confidence and contemplation p 45-46. I think this is a good starting place to enter a state of nature connection by helping a client to shift into a different awareness which can feel harmonizing if I asked them to try 360 listening if they had a specific question we could listen deeper Value of nature listening to Wilderness as an elder inform all of our senses with wild storytelling and then go back to Sacred Questions.

[Hannah]

Hi Vanessa!
Thank you for sharing all that you did in your initial post. I picked up on the themes of safety and belonging woven throughout your post and how you’ve experienced nature as an answer to those universal needs. I appreciate your inquiry into how you can facilitate this for your clients as well. And I love love love the playfulness of your idea around nature’s curiosity about us! Keep us updated on what happens with that if you end up using it in a session!

[Allyson Duffin-Dalton]

Over the weekend I took my husband and our girls (they are dogs, but our children,) to a beautiful hike that a past student of EBI introduced me to. This particular place is less than a mile from Six Flags, and very close to a major highway. I had planned on a friend being my first client, but she has come into contact with someone with COVID, so we cannot be together for a while. I hadn’t asked my husband if he wanted to be coached or guided on this nature walk, but I figured I could slip in a few Sacred Questions and do some of the exercises that we have been practicing during our zoom calls and he would be none the wiser. Once we got far enough in that I could no longer hear the highway, even with 360 listening, I looked for a sit spot that he would like. We held our girls and sat on a log and I asked him to close his eyes and just listen; I asked him to listen from all angles, including up. He noticed a lot of things, he told me he could hear a breeze through the trees, but when questioned he said he couldn’t smell it or feel it. I asked him to breathe like a bear and see if he could taste the moisture on the log that we rested on, and after a while he said he could. I let him open his eyes and we did some surrender breaths together while I explained to him the exercises I just had him do. We sat in silence for a while, just letting our surroundings speak to us and before we got up again I asked him to 360 listen again. This time, he mentioned hearing scurrying critters, different bird song that he described as happy and chipper, and a breeze that he couldn’t tell where it was coming from but it felt like a cool hug. I asked him to carefully and quietly get back up and we would continue our wander, after a few yards he asked me why we needed to be quiet; I told him that we had sat still long enough that nature had enveloped us and was welcoming us as long as we played nicely with her surroundings. After our pause we noticed a handful of chipmunks, a few lizards, blue jays and edible mushrooms. We didn’t try to take pictures like we normally do, just mentally took in nature and her children so that we could reference the excitement internally at a later date. I’m happy that I had such an easy “client” for my first go around, Frank made asking the questions seem almost like drinking water or sleeping. He has a naturally inquisitive nature, he is always interested in whatever is going on and is the absolute most laid back person I have ever met. After our walk we went to the hardware store and made an impromptu decision to redo our living room. We were in sync with a color, how to rearrange and enjoyed each other’s company as we stayed up all night painting and helping our girls cope with the fireworks.

It is obvious to me that the forests cannot be saved one at a time, nor can the planet be saved one issue at a time: without a profound revolution in human consciousness, all the forests will soon disappear. Psychologists in service to the Earth helping ecologists to gain deeper understanding of how to facilitate profound change in the human heart and mind seems to be the key at this point. (Australian Activist John Seed, pg. 3, Ecopsychology- Restoring the Earth, Healing the Mind.

This quote right here, is the reason I am here. There is a pain deep within my soul that my home, my Mother, is dying. The only place I’ve ever known, that anyone has ever known, is dying at a rapid rate and no one seems to care. Caring, though, comes with a level of stress and emotion that some are just equipped to deal with on their own. As a vegan, women’s rights activist, equal rights activist, and child of Earth I often hear “Wow, I could never give up meat!”, “I agree with you, but I could never volunteer at PP!”, or “Ya, but isn’t recycling/composting/zero waste living/leaving the thermostat to a slightly uncomfortable temp to save money and energy so hard? Where do you find the time?” That last part is particularly troubling to me; as humans we are always changing, our route to work changes, the store no longer carries our favorite juice, our water takes longer to heat up in the morning, our dogs age and require a slower pace for their walk, we develop an allergy, we get a haircut, things are always changing and we ADAPT! When I went vegan my husband said we wouldn’t have time to make “vegan food,” yet here we are bonding and growing our own food, food prepping and spending our evenings making amazingly nutritious meals that leave us left overs so we don’t need to make lunch. When I wanted to adopt another dog he said “We won’t have time, we already have all of these other pets.” But not only did we have time, we also had the love and diligence to mend her broken heart and help her deal with past traumas. When my old man Paco was diagnosed with Diabetes, he said this will be easy, just poke him a few times and give him some insulin, and it was anything BUT easy, yet I loved Paco with a fury that I’ll spend my entire life looking for again.
I have my screen saver set to nature on my laptop, always have and always will. Thanks to this little additive I am shown many picture of nature reserves and wilderness areas, like Doi Pha Tang in Thailand, Zhangjjajie National Forest Park in China, and John Muir’s wilderness reserve in California. I’ve studied his life, his ways, and his abilities enough to know that the “Father of the National Parks” had it right. John had it right all along and if we can focus more on being ourselves with a touch of great men and womn in history, we can accomplish so much for Earth. In “Wilderness as a Healing Place,” I learned a lot about myself. The conclusion of the article listed the reasons why wilderness has a profound effect on our being, and many of the listed resonated with me. “In wilderness people experience increasing effortlessness in attending to their surroundings, which can be an antidote to the irritability and stress that comes with attention overload in daily life.” (pg. 55) I often feel like it’s me against the world, and through this program I’ve come to accept that it’s me AND the world, or that it can be. I’m working on honing my vision, to concentrating on a deeper focus, what I can and will do, and who I can wrangle along the way, to help save our Earth.

[Hannah]

Thanks for your initial post, Ally! I’m curious to hear more about how you felt when guiding Frank in the nature connection exercises you’re learning. Especially now that you’ve got more experience than you did in your initial post! It might be interesting to reflect back on that experience from where you are now and see what you notice! I also really appreciate your emphasis on varying perceptions of time, and when we use the “not enough time” story as a way to put off our goals. Thanks for sharing!

[Allyson Duffin-Dalton]

Vanessa, thank you so much for sharing that with us. You have come so far and I’m so happy that we will have a chance to connect on a deeper level. You have a wonderful way of writing, so eloquent, and I’d love to read some of your poetry if you would like to share.

I understand past trauma and being in a home that doesn’t feel so home like, and how you can use your past to connect with people and gain trust. This would be an excellent opportunity to build that trust, as many that have suffered and come through are not always so eager or able to speak their truth.

[Sul]

Thanks for your message, Allyson. 🙂

Great story about your wander with your husband. I like that you point out that even near a highway we can find a nature. I enjoyed imagining you resting on the log and asking him to breathe like a bear. I wonder what that looks and sounds like? Great question with using a closer direct contact point to taste the moisture on the log.
Makes me wonder if bears or other wild life can taste this as well. 🙂

Isn’t 360 listening a wonderful tool? It immediately shifts things in the environ and I wonder what it felt like for you as coach to witness his reactions to how much he could hear. I find something very gratifying about this deep listening.

I hear your in pain in your soul from observing mother earth in her state of turmoil. I also hear some despair when you wrote no one seems to care. I wonder if identifying individuals or groups of people who defend the earth and protect her would be comforting to you. Perhaps an organization that is actively doing preservation regernerative work in the world could offer you something beneficial. I’m curious if volunteering in something that is focused on protecting mother earth would be a possibility for you? You are not alone and to anchor that solidarity joining in the chorus of a healing song through activism sounds like it would envelop you just as much as the wood near the highway did when you went for a wander with your husband!

I’ve been to Muir Woods in California. It is very special. Sadly, as I wandered through what I consider my church, some people were talking loudly and were distracted not really taking in as they discussed their social media or plans that weekend. I realized in that moment that I was getting distracted by those who were not focused. That I needed to hone my focus for my vision for my life because the rest was just noise. Conditioned noise to not listen deeper to mother earth.

It is a delight to read you have begun learning a lot about yourself! What an adventure to be at the threshold for transformation through the EBI gateway.

A remedio for your soul: I have a poem I wrote about the forgiving earth I’d share with you since you requested to read my poetry.

every best wish Allyson,

V

[Sul]

Response Part Two: I’ve read the Chapters now and here is a deeper reflection to ‘What does it mean to be connected to nature and how can that relationship support my coaching.’
I want to begin by writing that these books are incredible resources. Especially Coyote’s guide. It is rich and I am thankful for this opportunity to read it.

Framing the Coyote mentoring in the context of life coaching as an approach to personal development is undeniably in collaboration with Nature. As I adopt the foundation principles of coaching as Jenny Rogers wrote (p 7-9). about I have a structure made of ethics that will guide and inform my application of Core Routines (p 35).
As someone who has been in a mentoring/coaching role before, the combination of principles/philosophy from both books will “stretch my edges” as I become a skilled EBI coach. The Coaching SKills book reinforced many things I have already practiced in my private side hussle. (which I am determined to make my main hussle). 🙂
One breakthrough for me was reading about cultivating unconditional acceptance of client which is not the same as liking client and how this brings coach in a state of being congruent. (p34-35).
This was enlightening and clarifying to read and a strength I can draw on in terms of secure boundaries in my coaching practice. I have often felt if I dont like something about a person I can’t help them but I am willing to shift persepctive as I believe this has potential to season me into a mature and professional life coach and challenge my assumptions or expectations which I admit can be a form of control rooted in fear. I am willing to surrender this old way in me and see things differntly.I’m willing to be a little uncomfortable so I can grow.

I found a connection between Principle 2 of Rogers Foundations “Coaches role to develop clients resourcefulness through skillful questioning, challenge and support” is enhanced by the Coyote Mentoring. One way it is taken further with nature connection is by implementing a few Core Routines such as the Sit Spot (p 36). and Story of the Day (p.41-42). By focusing on clients experience of getting to know one place and their experience with nature I can listen deeply to them and ask questions to guide them further into what they notice. This can be applied to life and their unique place in the world. I think that as they learn to trust me and are open to sense things with more awareness of connecting to nature, it can also be applied to their goals and a way into listening deeper for guidance themselves.

I had a sit spot in childhood. It was a pine tree I would crawl under and into and sit with the needles radiating out in all directions. It was a peaceful safe retreat for me and sometimes I played with other kids in it and we called it “Old man oak”

[Sophie Turner]

What does it mean to be connected to Nature, and how can that relationship support my coaching?

“If we surrendered
to earth’s intelligence
we could rise up rooted, like trees.

Instead we entangle ourselves
in knots of our own making
and struggle, lonely and confused.

So like children, we begin again…

to fall,
patiently to trust our heaviness.
Even a bird has to do that
before he can fly.”
– Rainer Maria Rilke

I first came across this poem while reading Soulcraft by Bill Plotkin. It was the beginning of March, as Australia began to deal with COVID-19, I found myself deeply disappointed in the book that I was so looking forward to reading. On reflection, I had to move through a process, surrender to circumstance, while reading it. Circumstances where the world, my world, as I knew it had stopped, my plans were all paused, I was told I needed to stay home, stay indoors. It all seemed at odds with what I was finding on the pages and what I hungered for, that feeling of space and freedom offered in nature. The freedom to dive into dark spaces to uncover myself, to learn, to grow, to energetically expand. Only the first stanza is presented in the book, I noted it down, while everything else felt so intangible the desire to surrender to the earths intelligence and rise up rooted like trees stayed with me.

The book it seems, so apparent today, is still with me, echoed through the readings and learnings of these past months. That constant in my enquiry into nature connectedness, my role as a coach and how I shall best serve the communities surrounding me. That enquiry into acknowledgement and freedom in raw self-expression. Witnessed so freely and powerfully in nature (Young, Haas & McGown) while not enough in society, as we find safety and restriction in societal ideals.

We are nature. As potent and accurate as this is, I am still growing, still learning and understanding how to embody this and the responsibility that comes with it. The responsibility attached to nature intrinsically and extrinsically.

Nature has played a significant role in bringing me to this present moment, it is where I feel the most grounded, free, creative and connected. It is where I can feel my authentic self begin to radiate from within, a vast and knowing soul space. It is a pulsing energy for endless opportunities, it provides the doorway to self, opening the deep chasm for self-exploration and growth.

Being in nature brings me completely into the present, offering moments for insights so profound I would not have seen or heard them elsewhere. We have talked about deep listening with clients and as I reflect on this in the context of what I have written here, nature offers me the space to listen deeply to nature itself. For while my personal experiences have been transforming, I know I can go even deeper. While that excites me it also terrifies me, to stand on the precipice with what I know behind me and the unknown before me. While nature conjures an infinite space of opportunity with no boundaries, all encompassing, it is solid. It keeps me grounded and connected to a higher purpose and a mission that I’m yet to fully understand. Perhaps I never will, perhaps the only thing I need to do is to keep moving in a direction that is congruent with my authentic self and the earth’s wisdom.

“Sometimes it takes darkness and the sweet
confinement of your aloneness
to learn.”
– David Whyte

As a coach, I want to support clients in facing their darkness, utilising the power of nature, giving us permission to freely express who we are. Nature provides a stage for our fears and desires to be uncovered. Nature is supportive while at the same time opening up darkness and light for us to explore, to understand and to grow.

In brief summary, there was a flow that overcame me in reflecting on this question, it is not as poised or academic as I would usually present but in the faith that my presence in nature in this moment, this is exactly what I needed to put forward in response to the question.

[Sophie Turner]

Allyson and Vanessa, thank you for sharing your reflections, I have so many questions and love that Vanessa, you are also curious about the noise of a bear breathing and whether animals can taste the moisture on the log. Allyson what a beautiful way to bring presence in that moment, I have no doubt it was a powerful wander to do together.

What has come up for me while reading your posts, and I’d like to acknowledge it, is the way in which you both write of your experiences from the heart. Having a big academic background I don’t often write in a way that invokes deep flow and reflection, and when I do I rarely share it. I am closely connected to myself as intellectual and analytical, expressing myself more openly, with more rawness, and reflection is going to take some practice, you will note my attempt to half-heartedly disown my response in the last paragraph above. Connecting and communicating from the heart centre is a work in progress and I am very grateful to you both as your responses have given me permission. Permission I didn’t realise I needed.

Thank you.

[Allyson Duffin-Dalton]

Thank you so much for sharing, Sophie! I love the poem that you shared, and simultaneously I hate it becasue it reminds me of when I was very into poetry. In high school when I contemplated suicide, I wrote poetry viciously and dependently, and once I got my depression under control I ditched poetry and started reading fervently. I miss poetry, writing it and reading it, and I appreciate the poem you included, it reminds me that my own failure is natural and maybe not a failure at all…
“So like children, we begin again…
to fall,
patiently to trust our heaviness.
Even a bird has to do that
before he can fly.”

I needed the permission you spoke of, to award myself something that I’ve been longing for for over a decade.

[Sophie Turner]

Definitely not failure at all Allyson, poetry is a beautiful creative outlet for the darkness and light we all experience throughout our lives. I’ve never written poems or explored them widely but I do find that it always poetry that shows up in my life and teaches me something unexpected.

I look forward to seeing how we both grow and learn in this journey together with the permissions we have granted outselves.

[Sophie Turner]

My key takeaways from this module
– having some coaching experience, both as coach and coachee, makes understanding the concepts in the readings easy and I am keen to dive further into the nature connection aspect.
– I feel ready to challenge myself to go deeper in my own reflection and coaching, I’m intrigued to learn more of the feminine in nature and how I can sit more consistently from a heart space rather than my science based, analytical cognitive space.

Looking forward to the next module.

[Jennifer LeCompte]

“What does it mean to be connected to Nature, and how can that relationship support your coaching?”

Excellent question…. In the last few weeks, I started reframing my relationship with the natural cycle of everything, most notably – death. Death is change and transformation. In the tarot and in dreams, death is not taken as a literal construct, but as a recognition that big change is happening. For us biological folk, death is a very scary proposition. We know it is going to happen, we know that it is a part of life. However, not having the knowledge of how it works and what happens to this consciousness we have is incredibly daunting. I’ve had a fear of death my whole life. It seems funny then, that I should happen to have my foot in that world on the “other side” as an empathic medium. I suspect that my fear of death has been exacerbated by feeling it and not understanding what I’m feeling. But that is a different story.

As I’ve sat in my spot, listening, watching, observing everything around me, something happened for me. I feel as though I’ve been pulled out of the illusion that I am somehow a person with nature around me, that I must accomplish many things before I die, that I will have failed if I didn’t find my purpose. I feel as though nature has pulled me close to her chest, the way a mother holds her child, and helped me rejoin the natural cycle and rhythm of life. My deeper integration with nature in some way brought me the awareness that I am part of the greater natural world, already significant and humbled at the same time. In doing the work that is ahead of me, I am like the ant that carries food back and forth to the colony. I am like a tree in a family of trees, or a drop of water in the ocean. All of it matters and supports each other in the great link. This means, for me, that I am already significant as part of the chain, not because I have to prove I can do great things and accomplish certain tasks before my time is done. The nature connection shows me that each day, I continue to chop wood and carry water to support the community around me and the greater community. In doing that, I accept the already important place in the ecosystem, just as everything in the ecosystem is integral for our success and survival. These ideas take the fear and burden of death and transforms it into the natural conclusion to the life that I and every other organism on this planet encounters.

As a coach, this takes an enormous burden off my shoulders. If I walk with my clients as a guide, as a human, same as them, then it is as Ram Dass said, “We’re all just walking each other home.” In the readings, there was a great deal mentioned about moving at a slower pace, slowing down to observe, being still. These ideas resonate with me personally, but also as a guide. I’ve experienced anomie and alienation, at the same time, mentioned in Wilderness as a Healing Place. I recognized those feelings so strongly when I read the article. Since I’ve experienced those feelings, it better helps me recognize it and witness it in others. Now, practicing the Core Routines in Coyote’s Guide, Sit Spot, Thanksgiving, Journaling, Wandering, Mind’s Eye Journaling, and the rest, helps me guide others back the rhythms and cycles of life as I have been pulled. Maybe I can be of some help as a guide as I have been guided by nature.

[Jennifer LeCompte]

Sophie, I felt a deep resonance with your thoughts of how nature brings you to the present. We talk a lot about this idea in yoga teacher training, about staying in the present to fully experience what the present has to offer. I have felt very much grounded and rooted in the present through this process. In fact, I want to pose a question to the collective. I used to be wicked good at multitasking and remembering every little thing that needed to be done. Since studying yoga and now this coaching program, I’ve noticed that my attention has to be fully present on what is in front of me. It’s almost as if my brain will not let me multitask anymore, or juggle multiple thoughts. Has anyone else experienced this since starting this program?

I’m intrigued by all your thoughts!

Thank you for the lovely posts, all.

[Jennifer LeCompte]

I’m intrigued by your thoughts on being in the present, Sophie. I’ve noticed this too in myself over the years and in this program as well. We talk a lot about the present in yoga teacher training, and how being in the present allows us to really take in what is being offered. So, I have a question to pose to the collective. I used to be wicked good at multitasking and remembering everything that needed to be done, what people said, etc. Now, it is like my brain will not allow me to multi-task at all. It is most as if I have to be fully engaged with what is in front of me and that is all I can do. Has anyone else experienced a shift in that way? Just curious….

Loved reading everyone’s posts. Looking forward to your thoughts!

[Jennifer LeCompte]

Cool, so I just posted the same thing twice. 🙂

My takeaway from Foundations 1, a lot. LOL. During one of our zoom calls, someone in the cohort mentioned that it was like drinking from a fire hose. There is a lot to unpack and think about. I feel like it is one of those programs where the more you learn, the more you realize what you don’t know and how much there is to learn. It’s exciting and also challenging at the same time. Lots of stretching and growing to do.
Other takeaways:
– Even though I hike a lot, I feel like I haven’t really been in tune with nature the way I thought I was. The wide angle vision meditation we’ve done has really uncovered just how much is going on around me and how tunnel vision can leave a lot out of the equation. In trying to juggle so many things in my life, it has left me missing the depth and slowness I’ve been craving.
– The sacred questions are huge for me. Simple, but incredibly revealing. They are almost a meditation in and of themselves, where each question takes you one step down. I have really enjoyed using them even in casual conversations and with myself as well.
– I’m glad to be doing this with all of you. Cohorts are wonderful, my college class was a cohort of 15 and was lovely. I can tell that we will have a really special connection going through this together. I’m excited for that. 🙂