Long Term Coaching Models Discussion Forum (Jan 2020)

[Sandy Shea]

Initial Post

I have had multiple sessions with one client and I wanted to use the next session to focus her on longer term goals, and to set some Yaypoints for us along the way. I’ve wanted to do this for a couple of sessions now, and the client has been resistant–something about Michael’s demonstration of bouncing between the South and the East, always seeking the new, and never really drilling down to move into the West, or even stay in the South long enough to experience it fully. So, after this intensive, I came to our next session hopeful and expectant that we could make some progress on this longer-term picture for her, but her life is now consumed with a decision about a major business deal, and this has superseded everything else in her world. This client also has had a challenging time slowing down to experience nature.
When I met with her, she was very excited about the fact that a rock that was her symbol of a “leaping off point” for her–to leap to the next level–the rock had broken into five pieces in a mysterious way, mirroring elements in her looming business deal perfectly…So, while I was interested in longer-term goals, the client’s experience with nature–and symbols therein, had other ideas! I saw how this client was using the visual representations, moving the rock pieces around on the table to mimic different scenarios in her mind. She was totally in her PFC, in the moment. I saw that for this client, the visual piece was so key for her in working with longer term goals. So, while she is focused on the more immediate decision for now, she did state that her long-term life goal was “contentment.” I got a clue to how we might proceed with her–look for symbol out on the land that represented that long-term goal, then work with the symbol directly to draw out useful words or qualities to make the symbol uniquely real. Then agree on yaypoints on the land as well, to help her visualize and internalize the process. This remind me again of what we know: “You gotta see it to become it.”

[Ben Florsheim]

I love her awareness and knowing what her longterm goal is. It sounds like finding the symbolism was very powerful for her. I can totally understand the desire to have a plan as a coach and also being flexible to clients wants and needs. I think your awareness and flexibility as a coach really shows!

[Melissa Johnson]

I loved reading this post. Having a client that is going through a lot and can’t seem to slow down but when taking that time and seeing a physical manifestation of the current situation seemed powerful. I love that the symbol guided you through this session.

[Joshua Maze]

*INITIAL POST*

• Provide us with a short back story of the client. Note: it helps to consider people in your life to create this scenario.

I am working with a client who was assigned to me through her leadership course on here. As a part of the coaching contract, all coaching sessions had to be complete by Thanksgiving. Due to various circumstances, we were unable to complete all the sessions. For several months, I did not hear from her—no email, text, phone call, nothing. Until just before the new year, I received an email asking if we could continue to work together. I gave it a lot of consideration, wondering if I should allow the coaching to continue, given that she did not seem committed to the process during her contracted time with me. So, I made her a compromise. Through the coaching contract, she was allowed up to 6 free coaching sessions. So, I offered her the three remaining sessions at no charge, with the understanding that if she wanted to continue working with me after that, we would need a new contract and I would require payment.

• Describe how you would Establish the Coaching Agreement

When she was initially assigned to me, I spoke with her at length on the phone. I detailed my role as a coach and gave examples of what our sessions might look like. I reminded her that I am a student and that while I would hold our conversations in confidence, I might share the general details and experiences with the group for feedback. She understood her role and my role in the process and agreed to being coached.

• What steps did you take to establish the Coaching Relationship and focus the session?

I laid out the terms of our coaching agreement—3 free sessions as a compromise. With the understanding that any additional coaching sessions would require payment and a contract.

• How did or could Long-Term Coaching fit into your nature-connected coaching session?

After not talking with her over 2 months, and only 3 times prior to this, I felt a little disjointed. I imagine that my client can feel that from me as well. I prepped for the phone call, but still felt unsure going into it. So, what I decided to do was provide her with tools to use for after our session end.

• What challenges did you face? How did you adapt?

Challenges arose because of the long absence since we last spoke. I adapted by sharing tools learned during the Long-Term Coaching intensive, such as the 4 shields and Immunity to Change. I want her to be able to use these tools to check in with herself after our coaching has ended.

• What did you learn about yourself and nature-connected coaching?

Throughout this process, with this client and others, I have found it difficult to practice nature-connected coaching when sessions as held over the phone or a video call like Zoom. I’d prefer to work with them out on the land than just tell them to go find a sit spot in their community

• What ideas do you have for how you might use Long-Term Coaching and nature-connected coaching in the future with your client?

I can see the Immunity to Change, 4 shields, and Partswork to be effective tools when working with new families. At the moment, I’m not sure how much I will use nature as a part of the coaching process.

[Adriana McManus]

Josh,
I commend you on your ability to be vary clear and set boundaries with your client. It really gives the impression that you are a working professional and that you value the time that you have to work with your client. This also seems like a very real situation that all of us will face at some point. You even remembered the new coaching tools to use for the next session!

[Melissa Johnson]

I do agree with you that it’s really hard to get that true nature connection while being virtual. It leaves a space of disconnection some times and I think that it’s something that I personally want to be in person for as well.

However with today’s world now, thanks Covid, I do think there is opportunity to connect with nature virtually, it just may need to be in more creative ways. I’m still figuring it out myself.

[Lisa Dahlgren]

Initial Post: My situation gets complicated at times because people come to me seeking therapy, and I want to offer coaching. So with those in which it seems that coaching would be a good option for the both of us, I offer coaching but then need to tell them why making the change to coaching would work even better for them than therapy, and then usually sell them on the idea that it would be so much better to be coached that they are willing to pay out of pocket for it. Also, since I increased my rates as I became a professional coach-now having even more training behind me-I also have to sell them on the idea of how much of an investment they are making in themselves and why even that is a benefit rather than using insurance. I have found that being able to quickly help a client take clear, personal, control of their goals and milestones from the beginning really seems to help with the whole concept for them of changing from a therapy to coaching model. One of the ways it seems for me to achieve this now is for me to be mindful of myself having a greater sense of distance from their stated difficulties than I typically had as a therapist. Even with these challenges, I have a hand-full of coaching clients, and that has given me some opportunity to look at how I am establishing the coaching vs therapy relationship, talk about long term goals, and establish yaystones. Right now, except for the difference I mentioned just now about distance, I see a lot of similarities between setting up long term therapy and long term coaching.

I have tried it a couple of different ways to try to get coaching clients that want to work in a nature-connected way but none of those ways have panned out yet. So the coaching clients I have now still meet with me in my office and although they may incorporate nature things at times in their work and because of my passion, it is still not a full-out nature connected experience for them. so right now I draw a lot on my experiences as a therapist to help people with long-term connection (between they and I), establishing goals, and keep them both focused and motivated to continue in the long term. I do have a new coaching client I am meeting for the first time next week-specifically is coming for the coaching- and so I may be able to post about my experience with that person in the future.

My therapy experience has been that people appreciate taking a step back every so often to review where they have come from and to celebrate again their milestones and progress, as well as review their goals to see how they may want to adjust or redefine them. I think I used to do that on a timed-basis, that is, after so many meetings or such amount of time, I would just build it into our meeting plans. For some time, however, doing that kind of review is also based off of the sense of energy around what we are working toward. If the energy starts to lag, it sort of signals that a short review and possible reset is something to look at. Also, it seems so important for me to keep a mindset of looking for progress and pointing it out, referring back to how their old self may have completed a situation or challenge vs how they are reporting doing it currently. It seems so easy to weave that into observations, such as, “just two meeting times ago I was hearing you say/do/believe/ ______, and now I am hearing _____. Ha! What do you know? What do you make of that, anyway”

I am just in the midst of reviewing the recordings and some of the readings for this toolbox. I wanted to get this initial post out there to be in discussion with others as the posts come in, but I am hoping that I will have more helpful things to write about as I am reviewing more of the meetings and readings, and listening to what others say.

[Sandy Shea]

Hi Lisa,
I really appreciated you sharing about periodic retrospectives with your clients, so you both can name and appreciate progress made, however small. I get so focused on ‘making progress’ with a client, that I forget to honor where we’ve come from! It feels like for me, helping clients see and appreciate the reality of even small changes may help the brain be further encouraged in that direction. With reflection from the coach and their own observation, the client notices these changes have/are undeniably happening with some regularity. A new canyon is being carved. So the client may then be encouraged to move further along this path. Pointing out what (to me) may seem like small changes can help in honoring their journey and getting them to see it with new eyes– which feels potentially meaningful and motivating to the client over the long term. Thanks for the reminder!

[Ben Florsheim]

Initial Post

I have a couple of clients that I have been seeing for over six months that I have still considered practice clients at a practice rate. I am wanting to convert them to regular clients which I don’t believe will be a difficult conversation, however I am wanting to change them a little more than what we had agreed on as practice clients. There is a little fear attached to this because I don’t want them to leave me. I know that they may leave but there is a high likelihood that they will continue with coaching.

One of these clients I have scheduled a partswork interview with actually for tomorrow. We have been dabbling in partswork in an old self vs new self kind of way and we agreed to give the partswork a try. I am excited for this client because she has a lot of trauma in her past. So we are trying to get her with an EMDR specialist and do what we can through coaching as well. Her new self really wants to live soul directed and not live in self deprecating thoughts.

She is a client that knows this is a longterm process. I am excited to see how the partswork goes.

[Adriana McManus]

Ben,
I am excited to hear how your partswork goes as well! You know, it takes some courage to work with individuals knowing that they are holding a lot of trauma! Congrats for taking risks with people, I think this will lead to some very rewarding work with clients healing process. It sounds like you are nervous about pushing clients away because you want them to shift more. It can be a balancing trick to meet a client where they are at while giving them a push. I think that this may be your gift as a coach!

[Cory Steele]

Ben, I like how you are working with other professionals as that is going to be a big factor moving into a long-term setting. I am curious to see how the dynamic of your collective work between the three of you would play out, and add to a plan for long-term coaching.

[Ben Florsheim]

Sandy,

I love her awareness and knowing what her longterm goal is. It sounds like finding the symbolism was very powerful for her. I can totally understand the desire to have a plan as a coach and also being flexible to clients wants and needs. I think your awareness and flexibility as a coach really shows!

[Lisa Dahlgren]

Hello all, once again! So a few days ago I had a very interesting conversation with a group of therapists. Due to an unfortunate event one of the therapist had, the group got on the topic of coaches and their deep concerns about how coaches work with clients. Obviously I am invested in what they observe, wanting to be a good coach, so I asked them to list their top concerns so I could do some research.

Here is the list they generated: 1.) emotionally abandoning clients, 2.) motivating clients through shame, 3.) not coordinating with them when they share a client with a coach, 4.) giving advise to clients about things the coaches do not really know about.

The group met this past Monday, so it is really fresh for me and has given me a lot to consider. It seems like these things fit with some of the issues in long term coaching, and so that is one reason why I am writing this now. The one observation that I have really investigated since then is “emotionally abandoning clients”. I chose this first because emotionally abandoning clients is a big deal. It is painful for the client when it occurs, it can erase gains that were made, and it reduces a clients desire to try again. It can also make a client really mad at you, which is no fun.

My first question regarding this issue, was this: is it even possible for coaches to emotionally abandon clients? What I mean is, do we assume the constructs of being a coach takes us to places where there even is the possibility of “abandoning” our clients? If we are not players on that field, then my friends’ top concern is not even valid. It would be like saying “I observe my podiatrist can not fix my car transmission, and that concerns me”. It is not a valid expectation of the podiatrist and so the concern is one of clarity not validity. Other ways I have heard this said is: we are coaches, not therapists.

So we aren’t therapists, but does that really mean we are not on that playing field, anyway? What is the playing field of emotional abandonment? Well, depth of intimacy is one factor, and then depth of dependence, is another.

ICF defines coaching as: “partnering with clients in a thought-provoking and creative process that inspires them to maximize their personal and professional potential”. The website: http://www.realbalancewellness.wordpress.com states that, “coaching is not a helping profession, it is an assisting profession”. How close is a “partner” and an “assistant”? Perhaps the depth of intimacy in the coaching relationship is not in the range where emotional abandonment needs to be a concern.

Regarding depth of dependence: one of the foundation pieces of coaching philosophy is that the client is responsible for themself-again as stated in ICF outreach and elsewhere. There are several ICF videos available on line that talk about coaching and state this foundation piece in several different ways. I’ve just watched some of them. I think the way it is presented is that coaches could not emotionally abandon clients because of the coaching philosophy of the client being responsible for themselves. You wear your lifejacket in this relationship and elsewhere in your emotional life and I will wear mine, kind of thing. There is now no way I could be responsible for you floundering in our relationship no matter how I act because you are supposed to be wearing your lifejacket. Dependency-where the risk of abandonment and the risk of the effects of abandonment are higher- is specifically not fostered in a coaching relationship in a variety of great ways because of this philosophy. So again, maybe a concern regarding emotional abandonment is not valid and coaches neither need concern themselves with it nor have specific training about it other than remembering to keep having their clients problems and solutions be their clients problems and solutions.

So I then went to the competencies to see how issues of regulating intimacy are addressed, remembering that the deeper the intimacy the more potential there is for negative effects if abandonment occurs. I found-well, virtually every competency regarding the coaching process are methods of promoting intimacy. The process of discovery, awareness, and identifying deeper needs automatically places the coaching relationship in a position of increased intimacy (we might even say extreme intimacy), client vulnerability, and the activation of parts that enjoy, even feel a NEED for being more fully witnessed, heard, and understood. Prime territory for potential emotional abandonment.

Then I looked at social psychology and found that the top 10 methods of increasing bonding and attachment between people include: creating a common goal, doing something adventurous or outside the exiting comfort zone, frequency of meeting, and sharing hardships and challenges (www.bustle.com). What that is telling me is that even if we did not engage in the competencies with our clients, just being coached contains elements that most effectively deepen a relationship. Therefore, there is a ton of things involved in coaching that takes us into the most intimate range of relationship. We really aren’t the mechanically clueless podiatrist. We are very fully on the playing field.

Next on my list was looking at research around the brain and bonding. I found a few things: Positive social interaction increases oxytocin in the brain. Trust in a relationship is associate with higher oxytocin levels. Oxytocin is a hormone that is known to promote feelings of love and well-being and is both produced by bonding and assists with bonding, attachment, and exclusivity (www.yourhormones.into). Attachment and exclusivity are key components in dependence. Dopamine is also involved in attachment, and increasingly activates the “reward” and “pleasure” portions of the brain.

Therefore, individuals bond when there is a high level of intimacy. Bonding greatly enhances attachment and exclusivity (dependency) through hormones. Hormones then start to drive and heighten continued intimacy, and exclusivity. Additionally, new studies regarding oxytocin (www.sciencedaily.com) have noted that the downside of oxytocin is that it also increases the pain of memories of negative social interactions (potentially setting someone up to fear the loss of a current attachment figure even more), and promotes fear and anxiety in future stressful situations (potentially lowering an individual’s capacity for independently behaving outside their comfort zone).

So there may be a philosophy of client independence in ICF, but philosophy is not brain functioning. What if our brains are wired to become attached and dependent when we are in an intimate relationship even when that relationship is attempting to promote independence? Can a philosophy of independence be enough to overcome the very brain functioning which we as coaches actually have promoted?

I am now questioning what I feel is the ICFs extremely nuanced, “we aren’t, but we are” messages. When I look at the website, the intimacy is downplayed to a partnership, so we aren’t in the same place as therapists who are taught a lot about attachment and how to avoid emotional abandonment. But look at the competencies and we are actively fostering some of the most intimate ways we can be with another person, and without competencies based on awareness of the difficulties of that intimacy. Because we are coaches we are to build on the philosophy of independence (so we aren’t at a place where we need be concerned) but the power of what we do promotes dependency (so we are). “We aren’t, but we are.”

I am so grateful that our training at EBI really emphasizes things that can reduce difficulties in the coaching relationship, including an awareness of emotional abandonment. However, my awareness that this issue about coaches is high on these therapists list is now a concern of mine. I want to more fully explore how coaches can be helped to not have that happen. What I feel I have found out with my investigations is that if we say that potential harm can’t happen given we are coaches not therapists, we are in denial. And if we say that we are trained well enough through the competencies so that it won’t happen we are deluding ourselves, and now that I know a bit more about brain functioning, if we believe that we are immune from having to be aware of potential negative aspects of a coaching relationship because we follow the philosophy of client independence, we are possibly wrong.

[Adriana McManus]

Hi Lisa,
This is a very interesting topic, one I have though of as well. Working with clients does get intimate and where does one draw the line between “coach” and “therapist”. Personally, I try to establish right away (now I do after some hard lessons). Is this client really right for coaching? I think this is very important for both the safety of the coach and the client. Not everyone is coaching or coachable in that moment. Someone who is emotionally fragile would be better served in a therapy office and not a coaching office. Most coaches do not have the training to assist someone who is struggling for stability in this way.

[Adriana McManus]

I Apologize for the typos. I am typing from a tablet.

[Daniel Brisbon]

In the last webinar covering Long Term Coaching, on February 5th, I shared a tool that I invite you all to use. I shared the idea of creating a storyline or journey of your ideal client as they work with you one-on-one. When I graduated from the NCC program I worked with several clients for only one or two sessions and I quickly realized that this was not the path I wanted in my own personal coaching. I want to walk with my clients on their journey for more than that.

True transformation and change takes time and my intention is to empower my clients to becoming their own best coach. I want to see that happen!

So I’ve learned to create a storyline for my ideal client with me. 3 to 6 months has been an ideal amount of time for me and my clients, but what does that look like? Each person’s journey is unique, but there are beacons we all share that guide the way toward living out their deeper need. And that’s what I create and share in great detail with my potential clients in our initial discovery session.

After getting to know them, their story, the vision they have for their life and the challenges they are currently facing at this moment, then I am able to vividly see in my mind’s eye a clear idea of how we can work together and how the flow might look. I paint a picture for my client. I share the journey, the struggles, and the amazing results they will experience if they fully commit to working with me. I share in as much detail as possible. How often will we meet? What will be the incorporation practices that are unique and specific for my client over time? Why are they here and willing to do this work with me?

When you are truly listening and sharing the potential journey that you will guide them down then that can also be one of the most empowering actions you can do for your potential client too! You are seeing them for who they are! And showing them the great possibilities that can come to reality!

To give you all an example of how this may look, my generic template is that my ideal client and I start with awareness. You can’t change what you are not aware of. Once awareness is practiced then we get into what their TRUE WANT and TRUE DEEPER NEED is. I’ve learned with my personal clients that most of them come to me with some “non-ideal” perspectives of what they truly want in their lives. A lot of people look at this aspect of their life from a place of fear rather than love.

From there it gets into action and embodiment of the deeper need until it becomes natural for them. They are consciously living out the deeper need!

If you can share with your potential client how long-term coaching will look for the two of you and you descriptively share how the journey will look for both of you then you are giving the gift of making their dreams one step closer to reality! They are starting to see how this will look and feel like for them! They can see in their own mind how this will come to be a reality for them.

So I invite you all to visualize the journey for your ideal client and how it will look on the other side for them. How have you gone down your own journey of transformation? Use your expert skills and personal experience to guide this visualization. You all have great gifts to give your clients and sharing how that will look for them is your opportunity to feel confident in your long-term coaching skills!

If you are curious to learn how this may look for you, just let me know and we can discuss in person as well.

[Adriana McManus]

Intial Post*

I have a new practice client that I have seen three times now. We established a confidentiality agreement before we started. Basically my client was talking about improving their focus on their vision which was career related. Imediately what Inotice with working with this client is that they were already pretty proactive about their growth and it didn’t really take much time for me to get to the deeper need for the session.

Now, It seemed like we were moving pretty fast and I had all the intention in the world of discussing a long term client but I just got a “feeling” that there was more there. There was more information that I needed to learn about this client because I didnt know anything about them until our first coaching session. It wasnt until the third session that I felt like, “ok, I feel like I get the picture now.”

Next session, I plan on outlining a long term plan. So far, the deeper need has been to spend more time outside to recharge. I plan to help them delve into competing commitments, focus on what is most important and habits for self care. I am going to offer them my hourly rate of $75/hour and meet as needed given they are overscheduled already.

Challenges I faced were time gathering information and the awkwardness of zoom coaching. I would have much rather have met in person.

What I would do different? I would have sent them an initial questionaire before working with them! What better way to get the details of who your client is without using up all of your coaching time! I didn’t really think about questionaires until I considered my client as a long term client. I want to get to know them but the coaching session is valuable work time.

[Cory Steele]

Hey Adriana, I also like the idea of a questionnaire. It can be a nice way of obtaining a great deal of back story to free up time for the actual session. I have thought about incorporating this as well. I’ve found sometimes just trying to jump right into a session where I know nothing about them is mainly taken over by learning some other information that could have been gathered form a simple questionnaire.

[Lisa Dahlgren]

Hi Adriana, I really like the idea of a questionnaire prior to meeting. I have played around with a couple of them. What do you think is important to ask about? What did you decide to focus on as you build yours? I would be so happy to know these things if you want to discuss them.

[Lisa Dahlgren]

Hey Ben, Did you propose the change to your clients yet? I would be so happy to hear how that goes. I think it is so great that you just go ahead and deal with these things, even though it is nerve wracking and so hard when we have to take a hit in the wallet. I imagine that they will remain as clients, as well, especially after experiencing how you are in a session. I guess we all these type of things going on. I find it takes a lot of courage in those situations. good luck!

[Lisa Dahlgren]

Hello Josh, I wanted to comment about your flexibility in working with this client, staying true to your needs and the direction you are going while working compassionately with her needs and what she is seeking. I loved hearing about your plans for your talents and tools, and a struck again even with that at how lovely you do the dance of weaving into new things while caring for yourself, all in a very flexible manner. I hope you continue to give updates about your vision and how that journey goes along.

[Lisa Dahlgren]

Hi Sandy! I think I know a bit about this client you wrote about as I think you have presented her in the past. It is fascinating to read about how you guys are doing, and your ability to lead and follow, lead and follow, with her. Sometimes I feel like I can even feel her energy through how you speak of your sessions.

[Sandy Shea]

Hi Josh,
I like that your situation is one that we will all face repeatedly, and the way you described it allowed me to really feel into it. Your solution to offer three session free feels totally appropriate and professional. The way you prepped for the phone call by having tools to present to her at the end was a good way to ensure you were well-resourced yourself, going into the call.

I also find it difficult to do phone or even Zoom calls, as opposed to in-person sessions. Feels pretty difficult to incorporate nature under these circumstances, but with the right client, maybe not impossible.

[Sandy Shea]

Hi Adriana,
I appreciated that you shared your hourly rate–it might feel like a small thing, but I grapple with this question of what to charge, and to see your number (which is the same as mine) is helpful, so thank you!
i use an intake questionnaire which is helpful–but I’ve found I also may need to dive into family history a bit more and this may best be done in person anyway…
It was great how you were ready to move in a certain direction with the client, but then you got a gut check and knew there was more to learn. I agree that in-person sessions are the best, most natural way for us to interact with a client on so many different levels. It sometimes seems like using Zoom is just buying into the technology that creates so many issues for us as humans anyway…

[Sandy Shea]

Hi Lisa (and all)
I would be really interested in discussing intake questionnaires and what questions to ask! If you guys want to do a little subgroup on FB or elsewhere, let me know. Happy to share mine with you all anytime, and feel it needs more focus on the right questions–and the best way to phrase them. Don’t want to make it too long and daunting, but also do like how questionnaire can save time, and spark curiosity for coach & client.